Treo 650 WARNING - Here is the Cause of Many System Problems!!!

[jeffgibson]

All,

I just discovered a serious problem with the 650 phone power up sequence. I know this is a Sprint issue but not sure if it applies to GSM phones. But here it is:

If you enable the "Enable Local Network Time" option then this is what happens when the phone powers up:

1) 650 sets the 650's time to a random time (mostly in the 1980's from what I can tell)
2) 650 then resets the time to the correct local time.

This happens *every* time you power up your phone. Well it sounds harmless enough until you start to think about what this does to the operating system and running applications:
setting the time backwards causes all pending alarms (system and application) to be killed. So programs that are trying to be nice about re-enabing themselves by setting alarms to wait for a period of time before they enable themselves after a reset will most likely not enable themselves because their alarms were dropped!
any running program that reads the time will get a bogus date and potentially make bad decisions on what to do. Then when the time goes back to normal, that can confuse applications even more.
I believe this can also be the reason for some battery drain issues people are reporting. I can see how a program or a part of the operating system could grab this bogus date and go into a loop and spin for a long time consuming battery as it goes.
Every time you manually powerup your phone you potentiall kill all pending alarms.
I can see that it is also possible to corrupt data and files if a program happens to grab the bogus date and uses it as a part of its operations.
I have seen my phone 3 times in the last day crash during the powerup and my clock was left on a date back in 1982!
I don't mean to alarm everyone but I think this is a searious problem that people need to know about. IMO this option needs to be disabled until a fix is distributed. As I reacll the 600 also had a problem early on this "Enable Local Network Time" but if I recall correctly it was a problem with not getting the right timezone set.

Jeff

I have posted the following program to see if you have the problem. 

DisplayTimeChange

[Tadd]

I'm making this thread sticky.  Kudos for posting this!

Cheers

[prasys]

Thats only for CDMA Phones , I think in GSM The function is disabled

[jeffgibson]

I am still searching for someone that has *not* installed:

Shadowmite's voice quality ROM
Sprint's Roaming Fix

It would be interesting to know if either of these introduced this problem.

Jeff

[jeffgibson]

Thats only for CDMA Phones , I think in GSM The function is disabled

Nope I have heard that GSM phone shave this option.  Reports have come back that GSM phones only set the time once after a phone powerup.  And that time has been correct.

What I can't understand is why they are blindly setting the time.  It would make so much sense that the network time/timezone woudl be compared again the plam's current time/timezone and *only* change the time if they were different.  But who am I to question the develoment decisions of P1????  (That was sarcastic.  Many people probably say the same thing about my development decisions.  )

The good thing here is that the problem is easily avoided.  Just disable the "Enable Local Network Time" option.

Jeff

[prasys]

Thank you you sloved the problem..Jeff , kudo is not enough.  Well , let me take a look at inside of this patches..I got the orignail Sprint Treo 650 with me , but of course since its unable to connect with the Network ...I can't use that function..Anyway , let me try ...

[ratbastid]

For clarification: when you say "on phone powerup", do you mean when it's booting from a reset, or when turning the radio on?

If I turn off "network time", will my 650 sync the time with my computer? Or will I have to manually correct for clock drift every now and then?

[jeffgibson]

For clarification: when you say "on phone powerup", do you mean when it's booting from a reset, or when turning the radio on?

If I turn off "network time", will my 650 sync the time with my computer? Or will I have to manually correct for clock drift every now and then?

By power up I mean that *every* time you take your phone's radio from a power off state to a power on state.  This includes reset or manual power on.

As for time syncing, you will have to correct for drift.  Here is a tool that someone on another board posted that will sync your treo's time with your PC during a hotsync.  I have not tried it so I can not give a testimony.

Its right here at MTDN in the download area: TimeSync XT

Hope this helps....

Jeff

[cypher]

I am still searching for someone that has *not* installed:

Shadowmite's voice quality ROM
Sprint's Roaming Fix

It would be interesting to know if either of these introduced this problem.

Jeff

Sorry if I am butting in, but thought I'd add my 2 cents worth.  I have not installed the shadowmite's ROM and just recently added the roaming fix, but have never had any problem with the time setting on my 650....not since I got it.  I installed your displaytimechange program, but have not logged any changes, though I have both turned the radio on and off and soft-reset it numerous times.  The phone consistently displays the correct network time.  I checked back through the all the files and the time/date stamps are all what you would expect to see.  Maybe this helps??   

[jeffgibson]

Sorry if I am butting in, but thought I'd add my 2 cents worth.  I have not installed the shadowmite's ROM and just recently added the roaming fix, but have never had any problem with the time setting on my 650....not since I got it.  I installed your displaytimechange program, but have not logged any changes, though I have both turned the radio on and off and soft-reset it numerous times.  The phone consistently displays the correct network time.  I checked back through the all the files and the time/date stamps are all what you would expect to see.  Maybe this helps??   

Do you have the option "Enable Local Network Time" in the date&time settings section of the preferences application?

Also is your phone a Sprint Treo 650?

This is very interesting news.

Jeff

[cypher]

Yes, I do have the network time option enabled.  Yes, my phone is a Sprint Treo 650, had it for a little over a month now.  I love it, but for the few little quirks it has.  Being an Air Force computer type....I just can't help but poke and tweak and such, ya know.....so just let me know if I can be of any help....

[jeffgibson]

Yes, I do have the network time option enabled.  Yes, my phone is a Sprint Treo 650, had it for a little over a month now.  I love it, but for the few little quirks it has.  Being an Air Force computer type....I just can't help but poke and tweak and such, ya know.....so just let me know if I can be of any help....

Your results are interesting.  I hope that others that have not installed the ROM update will give this a try and report their finding.

I appreciate you giving this a try.

Jeff

[chatter]

It's not only when the radio powers up, it's also when the phone leaves a coverage area and then returns to coverage.  I've seen this VERY frequently in low-signal areas.

Marc

[jeffgibson]

It's not only when the radio powers up, it's also when the phone leaves a coverage area and then returns to coverage.  I've seen this VERY frequently in low-signal areas.

Marc

WOW!  Great input.  This brings up another interesting point.  What happens when you are in a no-signal area and you powerup your phone?  What date will it assign?

Jeff

[idont]

I haven't installed the patch or the fix, I've got "Enable Local Network Time" checked, and I'm with Sprint.  I've powered up and down numerous times, and experienced several hotsync soft resets. 

The # of changes remains 0.

Just more info to mess with you!!