Will Unusable Keyboard Fuel Apple iPhone Backlash?
Yes.
The inner technology junkie in me was in prime form yesterday when at 6:00PM eastern standard time, when the normal Tadd would have been enjoying a Friday evening off, I found myself instead tapping my arm for a vein at the local Apple store. I was joined there by perhaps 200 people, police, and Apple Store employees, many of whom had been there all day waiting for the imminent iPhone release. Some customers were giddy like teenagers on prom night.
Not wanting to wait in the daunting line, I asked an Apple representative if I could go into the store to play with the new device, because, “I didn’t want to buy one.”
“No,” he said. “You have to wait in this [Disneyland foldback] line even if you want to try a Mac computer.” I remember a similar line forming at a Louis Vuitton store in Manhattan when they released a newly patterned handbag to an equally vapid group.
“Thanks,” I said. “I’ll see how it looks after dinner.” I walked away dismayed, unaware that the seemingly boundless energy, drama and hype would be over sooner than I expected.
Apple store an hour after iPhone launch.
It took me an hour to down a frothy beer, salad and steak nearby, and return to a completely vacant storefront. The customers were gone. The remnants of hysteria were there– trash on the ground, velvet ropes and Apple employees, who were now trying their best to direct people out of the “trying” lane and into the “buying” one.
I’m sure I don’t have to tell you which lane I got in. I have a sweet device - a beloved Treo 680, which retailers give away for free after mail-in rebate - and am not about to shell out $600 (with a new contract!) for an Apple WhyPhone without taking it for a lengthy test ride. Fortunately Apple had about a half dozen display models, plenty so that the half dozen prospects in the store could toy around without interruption, while Apple employees circled with questions like, “Ready to buy?”
“No. But I’m ready to report to the world what an unusable keyboard it has.”
Calling the iPhone’s on-screen keyboard the device’s Achilles’ heel would be to incorrectly insinuate that the rest of device is bullet proof. But I’ll leave it to other pundits to point out the iPhone’s inability to sync with Microsoft Exchange server and lack of support for third party software, which marries users to Apple’s handful of unsophisticated built-in programs.
The real problem is that you can’t type a simple e-mail, text message or calendar appointment without suffering the maddening frustration of a carnival game that can’t be won, and without getting the screen oily with sweaty thumb dirt. It’s the loop toss of data entry — you will never win the big bear.
The device has “predictive text,” meaning it guesses at what you are trying to type. But unlike the remarkably accurate predictive text on RIM devices, Apple’s software frequently misses the mark. Typing is so frustrating that you find yourself watching the predicted text hopefully, and reaching for the return key as soon as possible to paste it in. The problem is that you are as likely to paste the wrong predicted text as you are to mistype a character.
So back to the question posited in the headline: will there be a backlash? I think so. The difference between an iPhone and Treo is similar to the difference between Apple’s defunct Newton (shown on the right) and the original Palm Pilot– data entry is why Apple’s product flopped and Palm’s succeeded.
Perhaps the amount of backlash will depend on exactly how tasteless consumers are. The device looks pretty, and it plays music. The interface is cool. But anyone who wishes to edit Microsoft Word, PowerPoint and Excel files, type text quickly and communicate it over a high speed network, or enjoy third party programs, would be well advised to save the considerable expense and go with a Palm OS or Windows Mobile device instead.
Related Links
Microsoft Responds to Apple iPhone Announcement
Palm Hires Apple Exec - Responding to iPhone
Apple iPhone Beat to Visual Voicemail by SimulScribe with Free Application
iPhone Mentioned on Palm’s Investor Relations Conference Call
Apple allows iPhone to run third-party * WEB * applications. (What are those?)
Filed under: Editorials
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haha i saw a video online and it showed about 2 seconds of typing and i noticed it had predictive text entry and a virtual keyboard. i thought pretty much the same thing “wow, how annoying would that be…….wont the screen be WAY smudged up as well?”
still want to play with one but would be unlikely to consider the device as a treo replacement as 1. im with sprint 2. at&t doesnt have coverage up here anyways 3. my treo has a memory card and streams internet radio anyways.
and data entry is impressively fast and easy.
this is what i posted in another forum (as DJ forum) where they were talking about it
yeah… but now you are stuck with a smart phone that you cant add any extra programs to it (as of right now b/c there are none.. and when the do come out you must purchase them from apple from what i was told) and thats one of the BIGGEST things that smartphone users like b/c you can get programs to taylor the phone to help you in your bizz and life. Next.. you cant connect your computer to your iPhone and use the iPhone to connect to the internet (wich i do with my Treo all the time free of any extra charge) LAST they say it has a internet browser tht works like your computer internet browser…… but it still can do what every other smart phone browser cannot do…. and that is view flash sites (or view them right) and from what i have seen.. the web pages on the iPhone load up faster (when in WiFi) but i didnt see and diff in quality between my Treo (on wide web page view mode) and the iPhone and infact my treo loaded up the web site faster over the air (with niether phone using Wifi).
Now dont get me wrong… The only computer that i will own myself are macs b/c of all the bad stability issues i have had out of every PC i have owned….. but the iPhone has a long way to go before it gets close to the funcionality that my treo has. I sure they will get it there… but it not there yet.. and untill then… I’m sticking with what works best for me.
I (owner of a Treo 700p) as well as 2 of my friends (both owners of Treo 650ps) purchased iPhones to replace our Treos yesterday. Typing on an iPhone is infinitely easier and more accurate than typing on a treo. The predictive typing is ridiculously awesome, probably the best I’ve ever seen. Just type what you mean to type, and continue when you make a mistake as if you hadn’t, at the end you’ll have the sentence you meant to type even though it’s not the sentence you actually typed. The treo (at least the 700p since I speak only for myself) by contrast is painful to type on and offers no prediction when mistakes are made. Palm OS has nothing on OS X in terms of interface. That said, the only things I miss about the treo are the BlueTooth modem functionality and the removable SD storage. That’s it. The treo was slow, crashed often, and it’s battery life was a joke. I had EvDO on the treo, and it didn’t really make a difference, it’s internet loading times were just as slow as the iPhone over EDGE, most likely because the phone was too slow to handle that much data that quickly. The Treo was also utterly incapable of multitasking.
The entire purpose of this phone from Apple was to combine Cell phone and Ipod, primarily. It was not intended to be a PDA or anything to that extent, it is a MEDIA phone. If you want to listen to music, browse the web, and make phone calls, Iphone will work for you. If you want a business tool with a lot of options, dont’ get it.
That is All.
I personally think that the iPhone looks nice, and I don’t necessarily think that the typing will be difficult — it’s amazing how anyone can get used to varying types of input (I still like Graffiti, even though my Treo 680’s keyboard is pretty easy to work with).
As much as I would love to get an iPhone, my main problem with it is the fact that I can’t load any 3rd party software, which is non-existent and generally impossible anyway. For ePocrates, the JHU antibiotics guide, MedCalc, and even little programs like “Rounds,” there’s really no platform out there that is equivalent to Palm (although PocketPCs have most of the bigger med software packages available). And that’s ultimately the reason why I’m not going to get one.
While I could get a standalone Palm, and then use the iPhone, I think that for $600, I would want an all-in-one solution.
Does my Treo crash? Yes, it does. But I think the occasional crash (as long as it doesn’t happen too often) is an ok tradeoff for the amount of things I can do with it.
Just face it guys, you all want an iPhone. I own a Treo 700P. Just as soon as my contract with Sprint runs out, I’m headed to the Apple Store to buy an iPhone. If it’s an Apple product, it’s superior. This is just the start of something great.
I can’t imagine trading a treo for an I phone. My son’s first ipod was very sensitive and lasted about 4 months. Thank goodness for insurance. He is now babying ipod number 2. I have not been impressed. I feel like we paid the name with his ipod.
I also think apple is so inclusive with music and video….apple wants to get their money. I can’t see this changing, they will not “mingle”.. On the other hand I love that even the “average person” is able to create apps. which allows me to basically design my own treo from shareware and freeware .
I use this phone as my home phone, internet and for numerous apps. My entire life is organized on my treo . I have dropped it many times and it still keeps going.. I have been pleasantly surprised at how tough it has been. If it crashed today I would replace it with another treo because I think “treos rule” !!!
ok ok. the iphone is the new thing, but after careful consideration, anyone with a sensible head and not just an apple junkie can see that Treo 700p meets and passes the Iphone easily. Reason number one, the Treo is EV-DO rev A the iphone is EDGE.
2. the treo has hard buttons, the iphone does not, what happens when the screen on the Iphone becomes un calibrated?
3. True the Iphone is 4 gigs at least, with the new up grade from Palm the Treo can handle 4 gig memory card.
4. Price, Price, Price….Iphone 499.99, Treo 299.99 plus 4 gig card 69.99, which is 369.99 a 130.00 less than an Iphone.
5. Treo has thousands of software titles, Iphone- none.
Basically if you want to spend an outrageous amount of money and want to make a phone call on an Ipod buy and Iphone, but if u want an all-in-one, pda, media device, internet, touch screen phone, buy a Treo.
Besides with the 130.00 you will save can buy and Ipod Nano if you just want an apple logo on an electronic device.
I’m wondering when someone is going to mention that… not only is the phone costing crazy $$$ but AT&T/Cingular dont insure PDA phones or phonesover $400, So who in their right mind would by a phone worth thar much money. and if you drop or lose it, you cant get a an upgrade !!! or relacement
I’m wondering when someone is going to mention that… not only is the phone costing crazy $$$ but AT&T/Cingular dont insure PDA phones or phonesover $400, So who in their right mind would by a phone worth thar much money. and if you drop or lose it, you cant get a an upgrade !!! or relacement
in Reno Nevada people were giving up their treos for this device. they are gonna want their treos back. i convinced a busniess man that he cannot sync with Microsoft exchange servers which is quite important no?
Let’s see…
* The high end iPhone has 8GB onboard and no expansion memory. The Treo 680, 700, and 755 all have 124 meg onboard memory and can handle 8GB expandable…that gives the Treo more memory.
* Pick a Treo, any Treo. You can run apps designed for your business: medicine, finance, education, construction, the list goes on. Oups, there are no 3rd party apps for the iPhone.
* Here’s a biggie: what’s the point of having a GSM quad band phone that you can’t take with you to Europe because IT DOESN’T USE SIM CARDS?!
there is definitely a market for the iPhone. but it does notn belong in a smartphone category in my opinion. this thing is a glorified Sprint Upstage(media phone with onboard mp3 player). just another production line, feature-rich phone for the masses, nothing new, we’ve seen it before, its just a bit different.
smart devices are expandable with memory, softwares, add-on accessories, upgradable with firmwares, etc. The Treo and iPhone arent even in the same category because of the iPhone’s lack of the abilities to do this (see any previous post for full list of the iPhone’s short comings)
there are very very strong arguements posted against the iPhone here today. I think we can all agree that the smartphone in general is superior to the iPhone because its still just a regular cellphone with flashy features we’re all bored with because our Treo’s can do so much more with little to no customizations out of the box.
A comparison review worth reading:
http://www.gearbits.com/archives/2007/06/feature_shootou_1.html
No third party iPhone apps is a killer. That small difference in design makes a huge difference in usability.
For $1,000 (roughly the price of the iPhone without service) you could buy two high end Treo’s, add the biggest memory cards on the planet and a mountain of songs (including streaming them for free using shoutcast), add a hundred third party apps– all of which you’ll be able to use with one hand. Plus the Treo keyboard is fabulous.
What’s left to discuss? ;-)
Just to kill a tiny bit of misinformation going around. The iPhone does use SIM cards, and you can pull the SIM out of the iPhone and put it in another phone (I have personally tested this with my friend’s old treo 650). I unfortunately don’t have any other SIM cards around so I can’t test if you can put another SIM card in an iPhone and have it work, but I’m certain that even if it doesn’t work, someone will figure out how to unlock it and it will.
you don’t have to pull the iphone down to bring the treo up. the treo can stand on its on. I personally think the 680 and 750p are the best phones out there. that’s why I bought one. however the iphone shows us what a gui and web browser should be like. blackberry curve borrows design from the treo. Why can’t the treo borrow blackberry’s pearl and replace the button in the 5way nav? I hope iphone crushes the treo in sales. Then hopefully the palm will start to innovate instead of resting on past success
you don’t have to pull the iphone down to bring the treo up. the treo can stand on its on. I personally think the 680 and 750p are the best phones out there. that’s why I bought one. however the iphone shows us what a gui and web browser should be like. blackberry curve borrows design from the treo. Why can’t the treo borrow blackberry’s pearl and replace the button in the 5way nav? I hope iphone crushes the treo in sales. Then hopefully the palm will start to innovate instead of resting on past success
According to Mossberg: “But the iPhone has a major drawback: the cellphone network it uses. It only works with AT&T (formerly Cingular), won’t come in models that use Verizon or Sprint and can’t use the digital cards (called SIM cards) that would allow it to run on T-Mobile’s network. So, the phone can be a poor choice unless you are in areas where AT&T’s coverage is good. It does work overseas, but only via an AT&T roaming plan.”
iPhone is NOT a PDA Phone!
Whoever is giving it that title just doesn’t know what they are talking about. Yes iPhone has a nice GUI, but that’s the only thing I can see in that phone. I know 4 people who waited in lines to get their hands on iPhone first and these are the same people who waited in line for XBox360, PS3, Wii etc. All of them don’t even have more than 1 game and they rarely use it. They just bought it cause of the ‘HYPE’. Some have said to me ” I bought it because its by Apple, it has to be good. ”
$499 and $599 for 4gb and 8gb is a bit too much for an iPhone. I had to pay the full $600 when 700p came out cause I had another year and a half left with Sprint and I was without a phone (2 Treo 650s were stolen from me in 2 months :( ). But 700p served what I needed a PDA phone to do. If there are people out there who have bought iPhone thinking its a a better replacement to their RIM devices, Treos and PPCs, well they are in for a nice surprise or shock in some cases. But people who bought this phone as a replacement to their RAZRs, KRZRs, fusic, sideKicks or those old nokia 3390s well its an upgrade for them. So many people who like to keep tabs on the phone industry welcome the QWERTY style keyboard phones with open arms even though they are not the best out there. The reason they like these kind of phones is because they serve the basics needed for say an E-Mail, quick SMS or detailed SMS or ease of typing your login and passwords for certain websites you frequent.
That’s my 2cents and I typed this whole damn thing using my Treo.
And once again……….
iPhone is not a PDA Phone!
Well I am in Australia and the iPhone is a long way off for me.
I have owned several Newtons. The last being the Messagepad 2100. It was an awesome device for its day.
I have been a Palm user ever since Apple dropped the Newton. The Treo 650 I now use is my 6th (III, V, Vx, Tungsten T, and Tungsten T2). I really like my Treo and it serves its main purposes quite well.
I have reviewed loads of material on the iPhone, looked at the videos, read the reviews (almost all of which are predominantly favourable). Count me in for the iPhone. I use windows and OS X. OS X is a very well put together operating system. It will provide an awesome basis for iPhone functionality. Palm OS has been very serviceable, but it has simply had its day. Even Palm are moving to Linux. If they get there ther may be a role for them. But Apple now has many many years of Unix experience behind them.
RIP Palm.
Well I am in Australia and the iPhone is a long way off for me.
I have owned several Newtons. The last being the Messagepad 2100. It was an awesome device for its day.
I have been a Palm user ever since Apple dropped the Newton. The Treo 650 I now use is my 6th (III, V, Vx, Tungsten T, and Tungsten T2). I really like my Treo and it serves its main purposes quite well.
I have reviewed loads of material on the iPhone, looked at the videos, read the reviews (almost all of which are predominantly favourable). Count me in for the iPhone. I use windows and OS X. OS X is a very well put together operating system. It will provide an awesome basis for iPhone functionality. Palm OS has been very serviceable, but it has simply had its day. Even Palm are moving to Linux. If they get there ther may be a role for them. But Apple now has many many years of Unix experience behind them.
RIP Palm.
Well I am in Australia and the iPhone is a long way off for me.
I have owned several Newtons. The last being the Messagepad 2100. It was an awesome device for its day.
I have been a Palm user ever since Apple dropped the Newton. The Treo 650 I now use is my 6th (III, V, Vx, Tungsten T, and Tungsten T2). I really like my Treo and it serves its main purposes quite well.
I have reviewed loads of material on the iPhone, looked at the videos, read the reviews (almost all of which are predominantly favourable). Count me in for the iPhone. I use windows and OS X. OS X is a very well put together operating system. It will provide an awesome basis for iPhone functionality. Palm OS has been very serviceable, but it has simply had its day. Even Palm are moving to Linux. If they get there ther may be a role for them. But Apple now has many many years of Unix experience behind them.
RIP Palm.
After 2 days I can type as well on my iPhone as I can on my Treo 750.
No I can’t load REAL 3rd party apps or cut and paste or do MMS messaging YET…
but the rest of the features of the device makes it well worth the purchase, not to mention the fit and finish of the device is the best I have ever seen.
PS to the haters - How’s that WiFi working out on your Treo? :P
Mine WiFi works great on my treo…. considering the only place that I have Wifi access when i need it is at my house.. and then I have my laptop in the living room and my tower in the other room so why do I need wifi? I tested the iPhone out inthe store and it just does not suit my PDA needs… I liked it… but its just not what I need… but if it works for what you need then great.. but its not for everyone!!
Now that the iPhone is out, can anyone comment if there is the dreaded “GSM buzz” using Edge? Many ATT/Cingular and TMO devices have it (including my Treo 680), when you’re near a non-shielded device like VOIP phones, speakers, computers, etc. Wondering if the iPhone has been able to shield the device so that it doesn’t do that. I would imagine that Apple must have designed it better, as alot of people will be using it as a music player that also makes and receives phone calls.
I wouldn’t go bashing on the iPhone on its functionality just yet. I mean, c’mon, it just came out and it’s the first generation of it, let’s expect there to be kinks to work out. I don’t plan on getting one, however, because to me it was an overpriced, overhyped pos. My cousin’s boyfriend, who works for Cingular, was telling me everything about the iPhone this past weekend and let me tell you, it’s like they’re stealing your money without you even knowing about it. Some of the things he mentioned are the limited warranty (less than a year, not normal from other phone warranties), how much you have to pay for it, the limited amount of plans you have to choose from, etc.
To me, Apple is a well loved manufacturer (i have a ton of friends who worship their Macbooks and iPods) that knew they were well loved by people and took advantage of it. They knew that people would pay anything and everything to add to their Apple collection and have an Apple cell phone.
My Treo is the only one for me.
I’m curious as to why MYTREO.NET hasn’t been discussing Verizon & AT&T’s EDGE network updrades (which have been theoretically prompted by the iPhone rollout)…
“Verizon announced Friday that its whole EV-DO network has been upgraded to EV-DO Revision A, which the carrier said offers 600K bps to 1.4M bps downstream and between 500K bps and 800K bps upstream. Its earlier EV-DO network delivered 400K bps to 700K bps downstream and just 60K bps to 80K bps upstream, Verizon said. Revision A is also designed for less latency, a type of delay that can hurt time-sensitive applications such as multimedia.
The Revision A network will let a user download a 1MB e-mail attachment in about eight seconds or upload it in less than 13 seconds, Verizon said.
AT&T is rolling out its own faster network, called HSDPA (High-Speed Downlink Packet Access), which it has said will deliver 400K bps to 700K bps downstream, with bursts as high as 1M bps. It offers handsets and PC Card modems for that network.”
iPhone keyboard issues? Use a stylus pen.
dcorleto - I have not noticed the “buzz” as of yet.
Nice - I guess the word objective doesn’t apply when you write a “review” of a new product. Tadd (wtf?) gives away his bias when he responds “No. But I’m ready to report to the world what an unusable keyboard it has” WITHOUT HAVING EVER USED IT! My opinion FWIW: Treo owner for 4 years (600->650->700p). Now iPhone user. A Treo is like using a dog turd for a phone next to the iPhone. And I had unlimited EVDO data on the Treo which was 10 times slower than the iPhone on EDGE due to the POS (and I mean POS). Why anyone would ever buy a Treo is beyond me. And it looks like they delayed their “new” OS another 6 months after they got one look at the iPhone. RIP Palm, RIP.
Wow, “tasteless” ?
I’m hesitant to give up my Treo too, but if I ever do go with an iPhone, it won’t be because I have no taste.
Honestly, the PalmOS is so mature at this point as to be getting *old*, while the iPhone has such a new OS it’s not even feature-complete. It would be silly to assume that the iPhone won’t have a whole lot of new features even by the end of the summer, making it a much more viable option. Meanwhile, where’s Cobalt?
One thing’s for sure: iPhone, like it itself or not, had better light a fire under the other mobile device makers… or, like so many Zen owners, *we’re* going to be left in the niche, not the Apple converts.
To everybody thats talking trash about the iPhone:
TRY ONE BEFORE YOU GIVE NEGATIVE OPINIONS.
Yes the iPhone isnt perfect, but its better than everything out right now. I have owned a treo 600, 650 and 700 as well as a blackberry 7200, 7510 and 7100i.
In two days I can type just as well as I could on the treo and blackberry (i use verichat a LOT and consider myself a fairly fast thumb typer).
The OS is far easier to use than any of the other devices. Setup was fast and painless.
Yes I can’t do certain things that “custom” applications can do on the treo or blackberry, but for things like Calendar, Mail and Notes, they are far superior than the blackberry or treos.
I program for windows mobile so I know how painful it is to not be able to load custom software. On the other hand, the web-software really is the way to go in the future. It provides the best way to be sure your data is always up-to-date.
No more syncing and worrying about multiple clients with different data, etc.
And yes, EDGE is slow as hell, but have you tried opera mobile or blazer or deepfish? Even on EVDO or HSPDA, they’re very very slow in rendering and browsing sites.
The iPhone renders websites almost perfectly and way faster than any of the other devices. I can browse REAL websites and not WAP sites or other lame converted sites.
Now for form factor. All treos and blackberrys are huge in comparison (except the pearl.. i love that look and size). The iPhone’s screen is miraculous and the touch screen is so much easier to use with a finger than a stylus. The HTC touch doesn’t even come close to its usability.
After having owned many other devices, in two days the iPhone has completely won me over. Having that said, I am looking forward to what Palm and Microsoft have to offer in replacement.
iphone treo (wtf) is the difference?
We have all become so acustom to fast food it makes me ill sometimes to read these rants.
a palm user from day one and an apple user from day 1.
I have drooled over the iphone online for months, but as with the ipod, I plan to wait a few versions so that they “nail it/work out the bus” as I’m sure they will.
And those of you who feel you need to trash the treo to make the ipod sound better you’re just convincing me to hold onto my 650 cuz this phone has been like an indestructable armoured car for my information. So to hear it trashed makes me believe you really don’t know what you’re talking about.
Don’t get me wrong I’ll be the first to jump on the iphone when they allow me to use the carrier of my choice as my unlocked, unbranded treo 650 does, and they work out the kinks…
But in the meantime I am hoping that the good people at palm develop a treo800, or 900 or something that keeps me onboard. Nothing like good healthy competition, we are all gonna win… I mean think about your first cell phone… what 10-12 years ago vs the phones we have now… stop your bitching and enjoy your mini pocket phone/computers… they all have their +’s & -’s
Something tells me more than half these “Treo users” bashing up iPhone are Microsoft employees or they own MS stocks !! iPhone has been out for 3 (THREE) days and there are some trillion negative comments about it !! Be fair guys, be fair.
I agree with “Pogi”. I have been a Treo user and typing on an iPhone is WAAAAYYYY better than that miniature keys on Treo. Its just a matter of time before all u Treo patrons will trash that stupid device and go for iPhone.
Nice - I guess the word objective doesn’t apply when you write a “review” of a new product. Tadd (wtf?) gives away his bias when he responds “No. But I’m ready to report to the world what an unusable keyboard it has” WITHOUT HAVING EVER USED IT! My opinion FWIW: Treo owner for 4 years (600->650->700p). Now iPhone user. A Treo is like using a dog turd for a phone next to the iPhone. And I had unlimited EVDO data on the Treo which was 10 times slower than the iPhone on EDGE due to the POS (and I mean POS). Why anyone would ever buy a Treo is beyond me. And it looks like they delayed their “new” OS another 6 months after they got one look at the iPhone. RIP Palm, RIP.
It’s too bad the article is slanted. Somehow I think that even if the iPhone was perfect, Tadd would have had to write a negative review. Let’s remember that this is a commerce web site. So they will be biased from the start.
The problem for me, is I have AT&T and a Treo650, but I’d love to have a 750p. The drag is that only Sprint offers the 750p. I would have bought a 750p on Sunday if it was available on the AT&T network.
Nice - I guess the word objective doesn’t apply when you write a “review” of a new product. Tadd (wtf?) gives away his bias when he responds “No. But I’m ready to report to the world what an unusable keyboard it has” WITHOUT HAVING EVER USED IT! My opinion FWIW: Treo owner for 4 years (600->650->700p). Now iPhone user. A Treo is like using a dog turd for a phone next to the iPhone. And I had unlimited EVDO data on the Treo which was 10 times slower than the iPhone on EDGE due to the POS (and I mean POS). Why anyone would ever buy a Treo is beyond me. And it looks like they delayed their “new” OS another 6 months after they got one look at the iPhone. RIP Palm, RIP.
Reading your post, I couldn’t help but smile and conclude how green with envy you are. I own a Treo 680 but will tell you, it’s as dead as ancient Chinese history. Face up to the facts and the facts are these: Palm is on life support. Or maybe you haven’t heard. Rimm (check their new stock price), Motorola and Nokia are in full catch up mode now. As soon as everyone catches up, Apple will out-distance them again. The Iphone is here and everyone else is playing for second place. Take a suck on that.
Did you wash your hands after that steak dinner? I was able to get my hands on the display model iPhones over the weekend and was very impressed at how clean the screen was after being handled by hundreds of people. And the typing. I have heard so much about the difficulty but found it to be very responsive and simple to use. As much as I like my 680, all those buttons are screen space on the iPhone. A pretty good trade-off I believe.
This is a first generation product that is 3 Days old! The sky is the limit for the iPhone.
In have been a Treo user since the 300 and had every version running POS since that unit. My frustration over support (how long DOES it take to do an update for the 700p) and horrible, slow interface and lack of multitasking is the main reason I chose to get the iPhone. If there is one thing Apple does well, besides great hardware, it is to support, revise and update. Just like a REAL company should. Especially when you pay the amount for these devices. Don’t dog the cost of the iPhone. I know what the retail cost for the Treo is and you can’t always get the discount carrier rate. Additionally, most users do not care about the mini computer aspect to the Treo. They want their lives organized and ease of access to the important information. The iPhone offers that with a browser that will let them get to the internet where they can find nearly all they need. Most users do not care about all the proprietary programs we can run on a Treo. I have chosen to forsake those so that I will not bash my Treo into a million pieces the next time it hangs for 2 minutes when I press the button to access the crappy web browser. It is called progression. Apple is great at forward thinking and some people just can’t let go of the past. Let’s face it, unless Palm gets the Linux OS out FAST - Treo is dying a slow death.
Applie iPhone - length of time on the market = less than 1 week. Number of products in the iPhone world = 1. Chances that many more iPhones with added capabilities will show up in the next year = very high to DUH….
Please remember that AT&T agreed to rework their network to allow many never before seen features be implemented….. now maybe other phone carriers will probably do the same. Apple wants to sell millions and millions so I’m certain they won’t stick to just AT&T… but other phone carries will have to update their systems as well.
Bottom line and the thing I wish this reviewer would have noticed:
Apple has just re-invented the portable device that used to be called a cell phone. Thanks to what Apple has done, Palm, Samsung, Nokia and everyone else has to step up to the plate and deliver, or go home. Typing on my Treo is no sweet smelling walk in the park, so I don’t know which is worse, they both take time to adapt too.
Don’t bash a company that is trying to take us into the future. I don’t appreciate the slanted tone of this review and agree with others that even if the iPhone was perfect (which of course it isn’t), it would be still reported negatively on this site.
That is a short-sighted pity.
Props,
John Lehmkuhl
Keep telling yourself the Treo is better but sadly it is not even close. Yeah it was great to have access to all those Treo third party apps which 9 out of 10 times turned your Treo into a brick. I could not wait to chuck my 700P after picking up my iphone on Fri
I’m writing this as (like many of you) a very long time Treo customer (180 > 600 > 650 > 680 > 750). I’m not just a long-time Treo customer, I’m also a passionate Treo customer, too. (OK, I wasn’t so passionate about the 650, it was extremely unreliable – a very poor quality product, indeed.) I also own a Blackberry 8800, and now an iPhone, too.
I’m a little disappointed by the tone of the article and some of the comments. Much of the observations and community comments seem to be being made based solely on reported product features, and not on first-hand, multiple-day use. That’s a mistake. I’ve been using an iPhone since Friday. It does some things much better than a Treo, and other things less well than a Treo. On balance, it’s a great device – and given that it’s a first generation device, it’s even more remarkable.
Let me tackle a few of the misperceptions about the iPhone…
The Keyboard – I was a skeptic. A big skeptic. How could a virtual keyboard, with no tactile feedback ever be as good as the Treo’s (and I really like the Treo’s keyboard)? After three days of working with the iPhone, I’m really impressed with how good it is. Really good. I make typos on both the Treo and the iPhone, but I spend less time correcting them on the iPhone due to the predictive and error correction software. Bottom line, it feels like I grind out emails and SMS messages just as fast on the iPhone as I do the Treo. They’re different, but the results are probably about as close to equal as they can be.
EDGE – Just as I hacked my Treo 750 up to HSDPA, now I step back to EDGE. Not happy about that. But…the difference isn’t as significant as one might think. Performance isn’t just about bandwidth. The processor differences, OS differences, app differences all combine to make the iPhone perform pretty well. Sometimes differences are practical, and sometimes they’re merely academic. The iPhone/EDGE issue might only be academic. Bottom line, the device performs well.
SIM Card – Yes, the iPhone has a SIM card. Yes, it can be changed. But if you do, you lose visual voice mail, and maybe some other features I haven’t had time to discover yet.
Application Availability – Yep, this is an issue. But…I recall a time when the Treo was new, and there were no apps available for it either. Apple will surely create an ecosystem of applications, just as Palm did, because it’s in its selfish interest to do so. My guess is that they’ll do it differently than Palm did though. I’m willing to bet that Apple will exert greater control over the look and feel of applications so that (1) apps have a similar look and feel, just as they do in a Windows or Mac environment and, (2) the apps don’t have the trashy look and feel of some of the apps in the Palm and WM development community (some are beautiful, but others, well, let’s just say there’s a higher degree of variability in visual appeal).
Battery Life – My pet peeve with both the 680 and 750. My iPhone gets 7 – 8 hours of talk time (I don’t care if the battery is replaceable with this kind of performance). My BB8800 gets at least 5 hours of talk time. The 680 and 750, well, all I can say is, what on earth was Palm thinking? If I get an hour and a half I’m doing great. I can’t fly cross country (with the 750 turned off most of the time while I’m airborne) without the battery dying before I reach my destination. It seemed ironic that while I waited in line on Friday for an iPhone, my Treo 750 battery died and had to be replaced five minutes before the Apple store opened at 6pm. How much did I use my phone on Friday? I talked for 1 hour and 15 minutes, and did a little email and text messaging. Just pitiful performance, really.
Bashing the iPhone serves no useful purpose. It’s a beautiful device. The iPhone clearly sets a new benchmark for quality user interfaces. But like the Treo, the iPhone isn’t for everyone – it’s not perfect for all applications. There probably is some market overlap. The iPhone will probably crowd out some Treo sales. In the end, though, I hope the competition makes Palm’s products better. Palm does seem to have lost its way. Its OS is old and fragile and, as of today, further delayed. The UI is looking very dated. Basic issues like patches and improved device performance (e.g., battery life, device stability) have been neglected. Palm has milked the form factor while others have innovated (e.g., next to the iPhone, the BB8800 is probably the most beautiful piece of hardware engineering on the market – that device with a Palm, or WM6 OS would have been a killer Treo product), and the Foleo…don’t even get me started on that R&D distraction. The competition will make both companies’ products better and, in the end, we’ll get better devices to choose from.
I still like my Treo 750. And I like the iPhone, too.
Did you wash your hands after that steak dinner? I was able to get my hands on the display model iPhones over the weekend and was very impressed at how clean the screen was after being handled by hundreds of people. And the typing. I have heard so much about the difficulty but found it to be very responsive and simple to use. As much as I like my 680, all those buttons are screen space on the iPhone. A pretty good trade-off I believe.
This is a first generation product that is 3 Days old! The sky is the limit for the iPhone.
The iPhone is not perfect, but neither is any Treo (p or w) or BlackBerry or BlackJack or anything else out there. I replaced my Treo 180 with a 600 back in March 2004, and that 600 lasted me over three years with very few issues. I considered upgrading it to a 700p late last year… and then the rumors of an impending Apple iPhone got louder, and I decided to wait and see. On Friday, I gladly dumped my Treo 600 and my T-Mobile account, and I won’t be looking back.
Typing? I’ve made a few minor errors with it so far, but not enough for me to get frustrated with either the device or myself. EDGE isn’t blazing fast, but it’s better than the speeds my old Treo was capable of on T-Mobile. Third-party apps? Nice, to be sure, but hardly a deal-breaker for me, and I have a feeling we’ll be seeing more in that department over time.
I’m sure there’ll be bugs, and kinks, and things I’d like to see as well as things I wish I didn’t have to deal with (not yet, though!), but all in all, I’m glad I made the jump.
I guess not everyone thinks the keyboard is unusable. Check out this YouTube Video.
You know, I remember people said the same thing about the Treo 600 keyboard when it came out. “Those keys are way too small and too close together, it’ll never work.”
You just gotta learn the tool.
What blew it for me on the iPhone was trying to copy/paste/select text. It can’t do it.
Let’s see no third party software? That pretty much does it for me. No iPhone. Not impressed with the TV commercials anyway. Matter-of-fact just dumped web/data services at Cingular for my T680. Just don’t use it enough to put out the money. Anyway, between the dozen or more programs I load into my Palm device and not being able to code my own using iziBasic, I see absolutely no reason to put out $600 for an iPhone. Don’t say I’m anti Apple. No no. Am MS and A+ certified with a Dual G5 PowerMac. I carry an iPod Mini (3rd in 18 months) with my Palm (history: III, IIIxe, Clie, 3 Treo 300’s, and now Treo 680). Have a new battery and 8gb CF drive to go in the iPod when the present battery dies. When the 8gb iPod dies then should be able to get 8gb + SD for the 680. Then upgrade pTunes, get Missing Sync, and can take 680 t the grave, but an iPhone? Too much useless fluff that the services will over charge me for. What I need is a case for my 680 that can also hold an extra battery and SD sticks.
I guess not everyone thinks the keyboard is unusable. Check out this YouTube Video.
You know, I remember people said the same thing about the Treo 600 keyboard when it came out. “Those keys are way too small and too close together, it’ll never work.”
You just gotta learn the tool.
What blew it for me on the iPhone was trying to copy/paste/select text. It can’t do it.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone-fast_typing/people-who-cant-type-fast-on-iphone-are-retarded-anonymous-youtuber-declares-274135.php
The URL for my above comment.
Let’s see no third party software? That pretty much does it for me. No iPhone. Not impressed with the TV commercials anyway. Matter-of-fact just dumped web/data services at Cingular for my T680. Just don’t use it enough to put out the money. Anyway, between the dozen or more programs I load into my Palm device and not being able to code my own using iziBasic, I see absolutely no reason to put out $600 for an iPhone. Don’t say I’m anti Apple. No no. Am MS and A+ certified with a Dual G5 PowerMac. I carry an iPod Mini (3rd in 18 months) with my Palm (history: III, IIIxe, Clie, 3 Treo 300’s, and now Treo 680). Have a new battery and 8gb CF drive to go in the iPod when the present battery dies. When the 8gb iPod dies then should be able to get 8gb + SD for the 680. Then upgrade pTunes, get Missing Sync, and can take 680 t the grave, but an iPhone? Too much useless fluff that the services will over charge me for. What I need is a case for my 680 that can also hold an extra battery and SD sticks.
You don’t need to have the BEST features in a pda too succeed… the Ipod wasn’t the BEST featured mp3 player. The apple understands people’s feelings….No other tech company can match apple in user experience and that’s why they can sell at a premium. What other company dare selling a product with 4gb memory for $500 w/ contract? Apple dares, because apple knows they can appeal your senses.
BTW guys, this is just version 1.0 …. remember iPod 1.0?… can’t wait to sell how this thing evolves
i have had (in this order)…
a palm III, V, a kyocery 6035, a kyocera 7135, a treo 600(2 of them), 650 (5 of them), and 680.
as of july 29th, I will noever own a palm OS device again. (never say never, but….)
palm OS was always rank. since i first used one, I wished apple made a handheld. i had a newton, and it was cool, but it was ahead of its time and had no market to sell into, and a customer that understood what it was supposed to do. the iPhone is much luckier.
by now everyone knows that this is what they shoudl want. and it does it really well.
keyboards on treos are great, but i can type WAY faster on the iphone. sure, i cant select / copy / paste text, but im sure that will come once theyve let people learn how to use the basic multi touch screen.
steve is smart because he will only release features as he feels an idiot can handle them. it may be frustrating for people like me, but i see the logic. these features are also hard to implement well, and the iPhone people barely made what they had work in time for this release.
new features will come, and the iphone will only get better. i would have turned 100 at the current rate for a treo to ever match the panache of this iphone. and i would have probably had to hard reset it to ever get the update onto the treo anyways.
this is a gen 1 platform of the future. once the features fall into place apple will dominate the field. they have room to grow both up and down scal from this intro handheld. internet speeds will go up, screens will get bigger and smaller, and they may never let you load a program into the memory, but when ubiquitous internet networks become the norm, we will wonder why we ever did that in the first place.
i give steve major kudos for resisting the standard operating procedure, and being crazy enough to piss off all he geeks to make a phoen that even dumbies can use. theyll be the ones that pay for fixing all th things we cant stand now.
and here is my parting advice about the kayboard…. USE THE FORCE.
nce you figure out that you can elect the word you want (not the one it recomends by tapping the black word that youre typing (as opposed to the blue text that pops up), youll be tyoing like a computer kayboard. just GO, DO IT. trust it. type super crazy fast, make mistakes. it will fix them. IT KNOWS EVERY WORD. program in things like “doin’” as you type and it will learn them and let you type them forever.
steves a freakazoid control freeak. but hes smarter than almost anyone youll meet. hes not always right, but hes got good instincts… kinda like the kayboard on this phone.
alex
You don’t need to have the BEST features in a pda too succeed… the Ipod wasn’t the BEST featured mp3 player. The apple understands people’s feelings….No other tech company can match apple in user experience and that’s why they can sell at a premium. What other company dare selling a product with 4gb memory for $500 w/ contract? Apple dares, because apple knows they can appeal your senses.
BTW guys, this is just version 1.0 …. remember iPod 1.0?… can’t wait to sell how this thing evolves
You don’t need to have the BEST features in a pda too succeed… the Ipod wasn’t the BEST featured mp3 player. The apple understands people’s feelings….No other tech company can match apple in user experience and that’s why they can sell at a premium. What other company dare selling a product with 4gb memory for $500 w/ contract? Apple dares, because apple knows they can appeal your senses.
BTW guys, this is just version 1.0 …. remember iPod 1.0?… can’t wait to sell how this thing evolves
You don’t need to have the BEST features in a pda too succeed… the Ipod wasn’t the BEST featured mp3 player. The apple understands people’s feelings….No other tech company can match apple in user experience and that’s why they can sell at a premium. What other company dare selling a product with 4gb memory for $500 w/ contract? Apple dares, because apple knows they can appeal your senses.
BTW guys, this is just version 1.0 …. remember iPod 1.0?… can’t wait to sell how this thing evolves
Wow. Where is this negativity coming from?
I DID buy an iPhone, so I’m qualified to comment on it, unlike the Tad Rosenfeld review (and why would an editor of MyTreo.net even TRY to like the iPhone?)
The keyboard is phenomenal. I was typing twice as fast within a day than I ever did on my Treo. And I typed a lot on my Treo.
I liked my Treo a lot. But syncing with my Macs was only periodically smooth, and I scratched up two plastic screens along the way. I’m not bashing the Treo, though. But I am saying that the iPhone does everything it’s advertised to do, and does it extremely well.
I paired with my BMW effortlessly, and it downloaded all my 2,200 contacts into my car.
The screen is the best out there - huge, sharp, and totally usable in direct sunlight.
The phone seamlessly searches out WiFi networks, and uses AT&T’s EDGE at other times, and EDGE is not as slow as I expected; Google Maps with traffic and directions were completely fast enough, and even web pages were usable.
And he asks “Where did all the people go?” an hour after the lines awaiting the launch. Well, I was in line just an hour and a half, behind about 400 other people. The answer is that they got their phones and that Apple was so organized that they got people out the door with their new toys in record time. It was impressive.
Rather than fabricating criticism about text input and making nasty characterizations about not being able to go in and play with one while Apple was doing an exemplary job of retail sales management, of which he didn’t want to be a part, how about giving credit where credit is due, and embracing this new marvel, and expanding MyTreo.net into the future - the world of the iPhone.
I’m writing this as (like many of you) a very long time Treo customer (180 > 600 > 650 > 680 > 750). I’m not just a long-time Treo customer, I’m also a passionate Treo customer, too. (OK, I wasn’t so passionate about the 650, it was extremely unreliable – a very poor quality product, indeed.) I also own a Blackberry 8800, and now an iPhone, too.
I’m a little disappointed by the tone of the article and some of the comments. Much of the observations and community comments seem to be being made based solely on reported product features, and not on first-hand, multiple-day use. That’s a mistake. I’ve been using an iPhone since Friday. It does some things much better than a Treo, and other things less well than a Treo. On balance, it’s a great device – and given that it’s a first generation device, it’s even more remarkable.
Let me tackle a few of the misperceptions about the iPhone…
The Keyboard – I was a skeptic. A big skeptic. How could a virtual keyboard, with no tactile feedback ever be as good as the Treo’s (and I really like the Treo’s keyboard)? After three days of working with the iPhone, I’m really impressed with how good it is. Really good. I make typos on both the Treo and the iPhone, but I spend less time correcting them on the iPhone due to the predictive and error correction software. Bottom line, it feels like I grind out emails and SMS messages just as fast on the iPhone as I do the Treo. They’re different, but the results are probably about as close to equal as they can be.
EDGE – Just as I hacked my Treo 750 up to HSDPA, now I step back to EDGE. Not happy about that. But…the difference isn’t as significant as one might think. Performance isn’t just about bandwidth. The processor differences, OS differences, app differences all combine to make the iPhone perform pretty well. Sometimes differences are practical, and sometimes they’re merely academic. The iPhone/EDGE issue might only be academic. Bottom line, the device performs well.
SIM Card – Yes, the iPhone has a SIM card. Yes, it can be changed. But if you do, you lose visual voice mail, and maybe some other features I haven’t had time to discover yet.
Application Availability – Yep, this is an issue. But…I recall a time when the Treo was new, and there were no apps available for it either. Apple will surely create an ecosystem of applications, just as Palm did, because it’s in its selfish interest to do so. My guess is that they’ll do it differently than Palm did though. I’m willing to bet that Apple will exert greater control over the look and feel of applications so that (1) apps have a similar look and feel, just as they do in a Windows or Mac environment and, (2) the apps don’t have the trashy look and feel of some of the apps in the Palm and WM development community (some are beautiful, but others, well, let’s just say there’s a higher degree of variability in visual appeal).
Battery Life – My pet peeve with both the 680 and 750. My iPhone gets 7 – 8 hours of talk time (I don’t care if the battery is replaceable with this kind of performance). My BB8800 gets at least 5 hours of talk time. The 680 and 750, well, all I can say is, what on earth was Palm thinking? If I get an hour and a half I’m doing great. I can’t fly cross country (with the 750 turned off most of the time while I’m airborne) without the battery dying before I reach my destination. It seemed ironic that while I waited in line on Friday for an iPhone, my Treo 750 battery died and had to be replaced five minutes before the Apple store opened at 6pm. How much did I use my phone on Friday? I talked for 1 hour and 15 minutes, and did a little email and text messaging. Just pitiful performance, really.
Bashing the iPhone serves no useful purpose. It’s a beautiful device. The iPhone clearly sets a new benchmark for quality user interfaces. But like the Treo, the iPhone isn’t for everyone – it’s not perfect for all applications. There probably is some market overlap. The iPhone will probably crowd out some Treo sales. In the end, though, I hope the competition makes Palm’s products better. Palm does seem to have lost its way. Its OS is old and fragile and, as of today, further delayed. The UI is looking very dated. Basic issues like patches and improved device performance (e.g., battery life, device stability) have been neglected. Palm has milked the form factor while others have innovated (e.g., next to the iPhone, the BB8800 is probably the most beautiful piece of hardware engineering on the market – that device with a Palm, or WM6 OS would have been a killer Treo product), and the Foleo…don’t even get me started on that R&D distraction. The competition will make both companies’ products better and, in the end, we’ll get better devices to choose from.
I still like my Treo 750. And I like the iPhone, too.
It’s posts like this that make my glad I’m leaving the Treo community. I’ve had a Treo 300 for the past couple of years, and have grown increasingly tired of it. The only thing worse than the keyboard is the crappy browser I’ve been stuck with. And while there may be 3rd party apps available, none of them are in the same league with what you call “Apple’s handful of unsophisticated built-in programs.”
Yeah, Safari’s pretty unsophisticated, all right. Not like Blazer or anything.
My Tree 300 is on its last legs, and I’ll be more than happy to recycle it when I pick up my iPhone in a few weeks or months.
It’s sad how juvenile the tech world really is. There’s no reason to trash the iPhone if you like the Treo … or vice-versa. If I drive a Honda, I don’t need to go around trashing Toyotas or Fords. Your editorial is an embarrassment to this website, and to the phone you claim to love so much.
I’ve been a palm and then treo user the day my Newton 2100 batteries gave up the ghost.
All this negativity reminds me precisely of the negativity on the Newton boards towards Palm who ate their lunch.
For a v1.0 product, this is masterfully done. I expect we will see some software updated to this very quickly that make major steps again.
One of my co-workers got one and I spent some time playing with it. In short order I was typing just fine on the keyboard, and I like it much better than my treo 650’s.
When you look at the usable technology in the iPhone and then you look at the goofy keyboard and kludge that the 650 is by comparison - well…. The iPhone is extremely easy to use, much more so that a treo is.
I think it would be very foolish to discount the iPhone. i also think the iPhone has probably changed the smart phone business for good and in one swipe.
That all said, I’ve learned that the reviews here on mytreo are more about margin enhancing opportunities for the company than it is about usability and fair reviews of products. You can see that in this review for sure.
I know the truth hurts, but we all know the Treo cannot and will not ever hold water to the iPhone. It is like bringing a toothpick to a gun fight. The iPhone is superior to the Treo, and trying to shit on the keyboard hahaha, try again. Anyone who trys to talk down about the iPhone is one, probably a fucking idiot, or just blind, or you JUST can’t afford it. So take the single threaded, “Please Wait”, cheesy piece of crap and throw it in the trash. Do yourself a favor and buy a real device, and stop eating red meat.
Sounds like a lot of jealous people who are either scared of change, or miffed they could not get one… My brother is just the same, but he will soon own one and then it willbe the best thing since slice bread.
I bet most of you never wanted to buy a CD when they first came out because they were not as good as vinyl!!!!!
Apple never intended the phone to be aimed at the business market, and does not position itself as a replacement for the palm or blackberry.
I own the Treo 700w and it has been a great phone, but what the hell is the areial all about? And I can’t stand my pants falling down because the phone is like carrying a brick in your pocket. I purchased the Iphone and it is fantastic. Sorry to those of you who are not very coordinated and can’t seem to work the phone.
I have never owned a Treo until about 1 month ago when I bought the 755P. Let me tell you, it was amazingly crappy. The whole damn phone is a single thread. Everytime a send an email I have to wait for it to finish. Everytime I SMS. Please wait. After 2 weeks I told Sprint to use it as a paper weight. It is so crappy. I am not sure how you can even try to compare that technology to the iPhone. A treo is like having a 400LB girlfriend with dingle berries in her asshole, where the iPhone is like going home to Paris Hilton…”Very nice on the eyes and takes great care of your needs”. This is acutually worthless to even argue, but I can tell you one thing. I can type way faster on Paris than I can with Dingleberry. I have had this device for 2 days and challenge anyone here to a speed typing competition between the 2 devices. You dont even need to type correctly to use the iPhone. Just be kind of close and it will fix it. Sweet!
I wonder if when I eventually get an iphone, if my will obviate my need to constantly reset my Treo 680. I would be willing to have something that can handle more apps without losing stability. I’ll wait and see what becomes available as web apps over the next 6 months.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone-fast_typing/people-who-cant-type-fast-on-iphone-are-retarded-anonymous-youtuber-declares-274135.php
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/iphone-fast_typing/people-who-cant-type-fast-on-iphone-are-retarded-anonymous-youtuber-declares-274135.php
i cannot believe i will reply to this discussion, but whatever, my morals are low today.
to NOT expect treo lovers to bash Iphone is like to NOT expect treo lovers to bash blackberry. we all do it, i do it, i hate the darned blackberries. it’s same as PC users bashing Mac users, those that use a software/ device for a long time will always say something bad about the competition, it’s like it’s impossible for them to admit that the new thing is better. i’m a mac user that will never use a PC, so what, i can admit that.
but i agree with the yesterday’s posters, to write such a biased review is pretty low, even compared to my standards. all for a keyboard. to compare Iphone to a treo is repeating the same argument the geeks have been having since the 80’s about macs vs PC and what one can do over the other.
I will absolutely get a iphone - i just can’t bare to pay full price for the internet of Cingular/ ATT, Tmobile has been way too kind for me. but as soon as i’m done being a broke medical student i will sop milking tmobile and get the iphone.
it’s fascinating how easily we are amused by gadgets, not even 6 months ago i was this giddy about upgrading my treo 650 to a 680.
What kind of drugs were you doing to not get the iPhone keyboard to work? After 2 days I’m typing faster than my Treo 700p! Because of the text correction I am at the point where I don’t even have to look at the keyboard a lot of the time. Try that with a Treo.
I have half a mind to film myself typing on it to show that I’m not just making this up.
I think lots of people focus too much on hitting the right letters. You need to let go and just aim in the right direction without worrying about what you actually hit. The iPhone will do the rest.
This post was typed comfortably on the iPhone.
damnn sorry, i donno how it commented so many times
Near certainty: My Treo’s (700p) Days are numbered… Unfortunately, it’s a pretty high number because, for now I’m a slave to Verizon. By October of next year, I’ll own the next generation of the iPhone… (you know, the one with GPS, lots of 3rd party apps to choose from, games, faster network, etc)…
@Dcorleto - THe “GSM Buzz” is unavoidable with any GSM phone.
If the phone were “shielded” sufficiently to prevent attenuation of the signal in external devies like speakers, then you would effectively “shield” the signal from reaching cell-phone towers.
This was a consideration (albeit a relatively trivial one) during the development of GSM in the US.
The problem stems from the fact that the GSM band happens to attenuate easily with other devices: it’s a result of the frequencies chosen for GSM and it’s timing mechanism for registration and power management. GSM uses a more advanced power management system for the signal-essentially it lowers the broadcast power levels until it detects errors. These features are what cause the “buzz”.
Until consumer devices (speakers, speaker wire, etc) come with improved shielding, we’ll continue to hear these artifacts.
How do these annoying little germs like Tadd Rosenfeld (that can’t really be his given name, can it?) get jobs writing for supposedly reputable web sites like myTreo.net? Who did his Daddy know to get him this gig? What nerve does this twerp have going to the Apple store on June 29 and asking to play with the device with no intentions of buying one? Someone at the Apple store should have drop-kicked him all the way to BestBuy to play with all the broken floor model phones. The 5-foot 4-inch Rosenfeld already had made up his mind about the keyboard before even touching it. If he can’t make this great keyboard work with his skinny girl fingers then I can only guess it must be an inherent lack of dexterity that runs in his family. The keyboard takes about 10 minutes to get used to. Then, every hour after that will see significant improvement in your typing accuracy. The other thing that makes me want to take young Rosenfeld behind the woodshed and let him pick out his own switch with which I would whack him with is this. I can’t stand the incoherent babbling style in which his type writes with. It is obvious that he wants to review music for Rolling Stone magazine, the rag that all over-the-top writers strive for. However the sample reviews he submitted on Hanson and Milli Vanilli just were not up to their standards. myTreo.net takes a credibility hit each time it publishes gruel like this from our buddy Tadd. And for the record, do I actually know that Taddo is 5′4″ inches with skinny girl fingers. No, but since he has obviously made this page a carnival of judging things before you actually see them, that is my best guess about him. The only backlash will be a few thousand people who return their phones because they give up on everything in life too soon. Those few thousand phones will be quickly gobbled up by others who are much smarter than Tadd and his crew of under-achievers.
I haven’t rushed out to buy an iPhone yet, but I admit that I think it is stylish and functional. What intrigues me is that any palm owner would suggest the keyboard is crippling given the size of the keys on my Treo!
I also think it’s pretty ironic that a Treo site has to resort to being critical of a product like the iPhone. I guess it pretty clearly indicates who’s leading the race, doesn’t it?!
Well… I’ve been a Palm user since IIIc. Treo since 650. One thing to say about the iPhone, touch screen only will not last in the long run. I had a 650 that i dropped and teh digitizer stopped working when the screen cracked. only half of the screen worked. It was a bad fall. Yet the LCD did not bleed. I was able to continue use because it also had a real KEYBOARD. If you damage the digitizer in the iPhone, you are up the creek with no (input) paddle. The thing is then useless. Totally touch screen seems like a good idea, but not for a device such as a phone that is continuously pulled out of pockets and holsters which increase the chance of dropping them. then again, if the iPhone had a keyboard, it would just be an Apple version of the Treo :-). $600 for this phone (one has got to be crazy or totally controlled by vanity and his/her ego) .
After reading all these posts (ok almost all), it’s funny how people worship (literally worship) the iPhone already and it’s only been out a couple days. Those who have the iPhone are saying to give the iPhone a chance to work out it’s kinks. True, I most certainly agree, but don’t say “give it a chance,” worship it like you’ve forgotten what real religion was, and bash the Treo, Palm, and all it’s users.
It’s really getting childish. You come to a TREO, let me remind you a TREO, board and you don’t expect to hear/see bias towards Treos? Of course there will be, numbnuts! Also, as with everything new that comes out, it will be victim to some sort of scrutiny. And it’s funny to see how childish some of you are becoming, creating new login names, pertaining negatively to Treos. It’s getting ridiculously stupid how some of you are becoming (or maybe it’s how you normally are), but give it a rest.
What point is there in bashing the Treo, you iPhone lovers? I mean really though, I’ve noticed that a bunch of the “bashing” posts have come from the already iPhone worshippers. Has the iPhone got you on some kind of high, on some kind of new ego?
But this also goes out to the Treo-heads. What’s the point in bashing the iPhone, you Treo loyals? It’s only been out a couple of days, it’s the first generation of it’s kind, and of course over the course of time it will get worked on. I know we love our Treos and we’re just protecting what we love in most, but if people want to throw away their Treos and go for the iPhone, let them. Think about it this way, at least you won’t go down the street and see a billion Treo users now.
I’m sure a great number of us are adults and I’m sure that us adults are very mature, so let’s act like it. I’m a Treo-head and to all those iPhone users, more power to you, enjoy what you’ve got as I’m going to enjoy mine.
i don’t know why this is a surprise. the iphone is NOT a business tool. it was never meant to be. apple doesn’t go in for that. it’s style, and it’s basically a phone/media thing.
it’s not meant for the businessperson. it’s not functional. and you can bet that apple won’t allow MS word/excel etc. to really function well on it. i’m sure you could use the apple OS equivalent, but what company does that?
just my .02
That was a pointless, needlessly incendiary article. Let’s face it, the iPhone is a beautiful device with limited functionality. The stuff that it does, it does well, and for most users, that’s enough.
The thing that Palm doesn’t seem to understand is that most normal people don’t want to spend time and effort to make their phone work for them, and honestly who can blame them? With the iPhone, you pick it up and start using it. If something isn’t there, it isn’t there and that’s it - you deal, move on and enjoy the stuff you do have.
With a Treo, you’re given a platform - a bit buggy and kinda quirky - but extraordinarily flexible. That’s the trade-off, and some people will accept the quirky in order to have the flexibility.
As a user, you fall into one of these camps. Unfortunately for Palm, most people fall into the first camp, and of course Apple knows that. Hell, just look at the ex-Treo users in this comment thread. They were sold a dummy - they just wanted a phone that worked and did some other stuff, not the part-time IT job that Treo ownership can turn into.
For the rest of us, there are dealbreakers in the first gen iPhone; no MMS, no video recording, no memory card slot, no chat apps, no A2DP, no GPS connectivity available. Some will get fixed in future generations, others will never get fixed. Personally, I record video on my Treo all the time, find Toccer invaluable for AIM, stream BT audio to my car stereo with Softick AG, and take GPS tracks (and view/share them in Google Earth) using CotoGPS. So those things are important to me, but more than that, there’s DA and Flight Status, Bike or Die, and the awesome multi-system emulator LJP. I spent a lot of time getting my Treo to a state where it suits my life, and if I switched to an iPhone I’d lose all that, and with no hope of playing Prince of Persia on it :)
But I’m quite aware that I’m in the minority, and that what most normal people want is one device that:
a) does the things their existing phone does
b) replaces the need to carry their iPod as well
c) is cool
And for that, you can’t - and won’t - beat the iPhone.
converged,
So, you don’t agree with Tadd. I don’t necessarily either. But your personal attack is inexcusable. I think it’s clear to all on the board who the smaller person is.
so i went and checked out the iphone yesterday, and i’m sorry Tadd, but you are WAY off. if you TRULLY did play with the hone, instead of just trying it out with already biased view, you would have noticed that the sensors are extremely accurate on the keypad. not to mention you won’t have cramped thumbs from pushing in hard buttons that appear on the treos and blackberries. and even clicking on the links on a webpage, the sensors recognized very accurately which link i meant to click even if appeared to ME that i clicked on both links.
as for the smart text, you don’t even mention that that’s optional. you don’t have to use smart text, just type as you would normally.
i loved the LARGE screen of the iphone, because reading a webpage on a treo is extremely claustrophobic. and iphone has a neat little feature that lets you ZOOM IN on the webpage.
and THE MOST attractive feature of iphone is that it doesn’t reset the page/ program you are in when you get interrupted by a phone call or a text message or a alarm. in a treo, if you are in a program or online and you get a message or a phone call, after you come back to the program you were in it will be reset- meaning it will start from the beginning. iphone just hides the window you are in currently and when you come back to it, it’s where you left it off. and not to mention you have multiple web browser windows open so if you have to click on the link, you will still have the original webpage available to you.
and i agree with Converged, i have no idea who got this gig for Tadd, but he sucks at it. he sounds like a hipster from Williamsburg
Keyboard sucked, no way around it. Too small in portrait, and no landscape option - spent 10 minutes trying to type 2-handed and never got a simple full sentence right. Shades of the Newton all over.
Graphics slick and beautiful. nice size (little too thin), no removeable flash or battery (backup your 8GB phone over FTP?!?). It’s a different device from a Treo - different market. Palm will probably pi$$ away their unique strengths over time by continuing to fiddle as Rome burns, but if they’d spend a little more time innovating and a lot less time figuring out how to shrink battery life and screw with what else already works - they might have a chance of continuing to be around. If Palm continues to spend all their time and effort messing around with color swatches for case materials, I’ll bet Apple could design a Linux OS and assemble some hardware that puts the nail in the Treo’s coffin. Wouldn’t be too hard to design a snap-on Treo-like hardware keyboard for the iPhone, either.
Keyboard sucked, no way around it. Too small in portrait, and no landscape option - spent 10 minutes trying to type 2-handed and never got a simple full sentence right. Shades of the Newton all over.
Graphics slick and beautiful. nice size (little too thin), no removeable flash or battery (backup your 8GB phone over FTP?!?). It’s a different device from a Treo - different market. Palm will probably pi$$ away their unique strengths over time by continuing to fiddle as Rome burns, but if they’d spend a little more time innovating and a lot less time figuring out how to shrink battery life and screw with what else already works - they might have a chance of continuing to be around. If Palm continues to spend all their time and effort messing around with color swatches for case materials, I’ll bet Apple could design a Linux OS and assemble some hardware that puts the nail in the Treo’s coffin. Wouldn’t be too hard to design a snap-on Treo-like hardware keyboard for the iPhone, either.
Keyboard sucked, no way around it. Too small in portrait, and no landscape option - spent 10 minutes trying to type 2-handed and never got a simple full sentence right. Shades of the Newton all over.
Graphics slick and beautiful. nice size (little too thin), no removeable flash or battery (backup your 8GB phone over FTP?!?). It’s a different device from a Treo - different market. Palm will probably pi$$ away their unique strengths over time by continuing to fiddle as Rome burns, but if they’d spend a little more time innovating and a lot less time figuring out how to shrink battery life and screw with what else already works - they might have a chance of continuing to be around. If Palm continues to spend all their time and effort messing around with color swatches for case materials, I’ll bet Apple could design a Linux OS and assemble some hardware that puts the nail in the Treo’s coffin. Wouldn’t be too hard to design a snap-on Treo-like hardware keyboard for the iPhone, either.
The article linked below reminds me of the CarFax TV spot that shows a burning used car and want advertisement with: “This car is hot!”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19614050/
Apple has sold a lot of iPhones in the first week. A recall (though perhaps a far fetched possibility) would be a mess.
I kinda liked the user comments at the end of the article. Doesn’t look like a Treocentric Macbashing bunch: http://boards.msn.com/MSNBCboards/thread.aspx?boardid=475&ThreadID=328836&BoardsParam=HIPDelay%3d1
Iphone has great stuff, but its missing some simple things…..the main thing i dont like is that its not a one handed device, if you are a person like myself who’s trying to mutitask on the go IT IS NOT THE DEVICE FOR YOU! The other draw backs are….. It has no mms, sending a quick picture text is out of the question and you have to back out of any app to end a call. Now on the other hand, the treo has a dedicated button for that. Bottom line ……Its just a enhanced ipod
It hardly matters to post here as everyone already is firmly entrenched in their phone of choice, but as long as the iPhone doesn’t reboot itself once a week (like my no-3rd-party apps Treo 680), disconnect from the cell network and display garbage characters where the slightly better “AT&T” used to be (like my Treo 680), and have a headphone jack that needs an adapter to connect to headphones (before it breaks due to normal/light usage), I’d almost be willing to pay the $500.
But, luckily these stupid things drop in price pretty quick. As long as I can stop fooling myself that I can’t live without computing time between my laptop & desktop, I should be ok.
Now, time to sell that Treo!
I’m using my iPhone to type this. I don’t think it’s very smart, or responsible, to issue an opinion of the iPhone keyboard based on fooling around with it in the store for a few minutes. Took me a couple days to get used to it, but now I’m typing at my usual speed. So much for your attempt to generate a story that just isn’t there.
And I have been using a Treo for years. iPhone is years beyond it, even without all the shareware. Wait for version 1.5 before dismissing this amazing device.
the ever growing (and ever more useless) keyboard of the treos is the last straw which made me sure _never_ ever to buy a palm smartphone again!
“The difference between an iPhone and Treo is similar to the difference between Apple’s defunct Newton (shown on the right) and the original Palm Pilot– data entry is why Apple’s product flopped and Palm’s succeeded.”
is that so?
then, why decided palm to disable graffiti on treos and replace it with an annoyingly stupid keyboard taking up too much space and delivering too little?
did the idea cross your mind that apple is indeed doing what people expect from palm? providing a device neither running windows nor needing a big fat keyboard?
while palm stumbles away to produce expensive, yet bad copies of windows powered smartphones still made by a lot of companies offering better devices for less money, apple actually accepts the challenge to do something different (not at least for those peoples seeing palmos dying by the hands of palm)!